[Q&A] OK! Kimonos

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OK! Kimonos is a newly launched BJJ gi company that is carving out a niche in the kids market. Founder Brendan Hufford answered our questions about this new endeavor and how wants to do bigger things than make nicer pajamas for kids to run around in.

So what was wrong with kids gis?

I think that right now there isn’t necessarily wrong with kids gis.  Lots of companies make “good” kids gis.  The problem is that in order to buy your kid a “great” kids gi, you have to be really wealthy.

Great kids gis with ripstop pants, special gussets, contrast stitching, embroidery, patches, etc. are all priced around $150.  Who can afford $150 every few months when your kids outgrow their old gi?

To me, that’s just unacceptable.  I think that BJJ gis for kids need to be affordable and high quality.  Why shouldn’t parents be able to buy a great gi at a reasonable price?

What do you guys do better?

My aim is to better on two fronts: the gi itself, and the support that goes along with it.

I recently polled thousands of BJJ parents about what they look for in kids gis.  Based on those results, I put together a gi that I think kids are going to love.  The first model we are releasing really addresses the real concerns of BJJ kids and parents:  it keeps kids cool, prevents scratching, the pants stay tied, and parents are able to save money through our gi buyback program.

In addition, I think a lot of companies really miss out on opportunities to make customers happy.  Customer happiness is my number one goal and I feel very strongly that nobody cares about their customers as much as I do.

Last, I think that we provide the most value for BJJ parents.  Not only in the form of gis and customer service, but also in helping parents improve their kids’ experience with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.  I started a website called BJJParents.com to that aim.  My goal is to provide as much helpful advice for parents and coaches as possible regardless of whether or not people ever buy a gi from me.

What’s different about the approach to designing for kids?

I think kids want two things in the design of a gi: they want to have all the cool features their parents gis have, but they also want something that is fun!

When I first approached Meerkatsu (Seymour Yang) about working with him to design our first gi, we decided early on that we would put those two aspects above everything else.  And let’s be honest, Meerkatsu did some amazing work and really crushed it with this design (but then again, I’m biased haha).

When designing a kids BJJ gi, you also need to take into account that kids needs are very different from the needs of adults.  Kids may not be able to express what those needs are, but their parents have been really helpful in providing guidance.  I feel incredibly fortunate for all of the emails, facebook/twitter messages, and message board responses that I received from parents that have helped design our gis.

I really owe them a giant THANK YOU because without the input of all of the parents (and their kids!), our gis wouldn’t be as awesome as they are!

How does the gi exchange work?

The gi exchange is actually something that we do at the academy that I train at.  I love how parents can trade in a gently used (clean) gi to get another gi for very little cost.

This is great because, as I mentioned, most kids grow out of gis before they destroy them.

I wanted to bring that same mentality to Ok Kimonos not only to help parents with cost, but also to help gather up gis to send to Drive-In’s kids BJJ project in Rio de Janeiro.

I’ve been extremely passionate about helping the project ever since I first saw it on the Real Rio Show video of Christian Graugart’s BJJ Globetrotter trip.

[Brendan sent along Christian Graugart’s photos of the academy to give people a better idea where these gis are going.]

All that a parent has to do is send me an email at OkKimonos@gmail.com with what size and style gi they want to donate to the project.  Then, I’ll give them a 20% off discount code to use in our online store at http://www.OkKimonos.com.

While I realize that this may be a logistical nightmare for me, I’m extremely determined to make this work for the parents and kids that enjoy and buy OK! Kimonos, and also for the kids that it will benefit in Rio!

Is there anything else we can do to support the kids in Rio?

Absolutely!  Beyond trading in your used kids gis, you can support Drive In directly by e-mailing him at drive_in_jiujitsu@hotmail.com.  While my project will be able to help supply kids with uniforms to train in, competitions still cost a good deal of money, so they are always on the lookout for sponsors.

Right now, Drive-In has to pay for everything himself.  The kids train for free as long as they present good school attendance cards and he pays for all of the tournaments themselves.  They are one of the strongest youth teams in the world and I think in our hands we hold a very real chance to make a difference for Drive-In’s students.

[Gi Review] Predator Gi by Black Eagle

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With the Predator, UK-based martial arts uniform company Black Eagle establishes itself in the BJJ market as a maker of low priced, high quality gis. They earn high marks for durability, fit and especially price. This is a solid gi that’s a perfect choice for beginners (or anyone else) who want to stick to a $100 budget.

Quality / Durability Very Satisfied
Fit / Comfort Satisfied
Style / Design Satisfied
Price Very Satisfied
Overall Rating 4-5 Stars — Good to Great

Steve, the owner of Black Eagle, contacted me about reviewing their Predator gis after getting in a new batch. After some back and forth, we decided to mix and match an A2 top with A3 pants since I fall in the borderland of sizing charts. Those sizes worked out fine, with the pants being slightly baggy, which is to be expected when going up a size.

A minor note about the color of the gi. The jacket and the pants aren’t quite the same tone of blue. When I mentioned this to Steve, he said the ripstop fabric in the pants can “take” the dye differently. This isn’t a knock against the gi, since it looks fine, and it could be due to my mismatched A2 and A3 top and bottom. The difference in color lessened after a few washes.

After wearing the gi for the past five months, I remain impressed with the quality of construction and stitching. Nothing has frayed, torn or stretched. Shrinking and fading has not been a problem, but I also cold wash and hang dry. The craftsmanship is on level with gis with much higher price tags.

At £60.00 (about $95 USD), you’ll be hard pressed to find another gi of this quality with such a low price tag. Other brands could easily sell the same gi for $125-150. The women’s version is 50% cheaper than the men’s, and while I haven’t worn one (sorry), I would recommend any female jiu-jiteiros on the market for a new gi pick up one or two. All things considered (especially price) Black Eagle is a smart buy that I highly recommend.

[Gi Review] Genesis Gi by BJJ Religion

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BJJ Religion is a relative newcomer to the gi market, but they are off to a good start with highly polished branding and a line of cleanly designed, high quality kimonos. Their Genesis gis are smartly designed and durably build. If you can get over the high price, you’ll find a top of the line gi with a sharp style.

BJJ Religion gi

Quality / Durability Very Satisfied
Fit / Comfort Satisfied
Style / Design Very Satisfied
Price Somewhat Dissatisfied
Overall Rating 4-5 Stars — Good to Excellent

Black and olive Genesis giNear the beginning of 2012, Seton Seto from BJJ Religion sent me a black and olive A3 Genesis gi. After months of beating it up, here’s my review.

The gi arrived in a BJJ Religion bag, as gear companies have taken to doing. They included a corded drawstring in the package so you can change out the flat canvas one that’s in the pants. These are nice bonuses.

Initial inspection showed clean stitching and sturdy construction. Looking it over again after months of regular use, I can find no tears, no loose stitches, no torn seams, no fraying in the drawstring, no ripped belt loops, or anything else that could compromise its longevity. A few threads “popped” in the embroidery, but that’s it.

Wearing it, the gi is slim fitting and comfortable. I didn’t have the problem I often have with A3′s being too baggy. The stitching tape in the cuffs rubbed my wrists uncomfortably at first, but it quickly softened from wear and washing. This is a problem I often have with stitching tape, but I had someone else try it on and they didn’t notice.

The black dye has stayed remarkably dark and has only faded slightly, but this is helped by only being washed in cold water and hung out to dry.

BJJ Religion’s Genesis gis sell on BJJSports.com and On The Mat Fight Shop for $209. That is a steep price, but not unheard of these days.  If BJJ Religion found a way to move into the $150-175 range and maintain their quality, they would kill it.

Usually I’m more critical of gis with such high price tags (since I’m a cheapskate), but if you are looking for a high end BJJ gi and can swing the price, this is a comfortable and durable gi that gets everything right.

[Gi Review] Roger Gracie Gi by Rei-Gi

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Quick Review

UK kimono makers Rei-Gi have teamed up with Roger Gracie to create his signature gi. If you can get over its high price, you’ll find it is a high quality workhorse gi that is built to last. Those who aren’t Roger Gracie memorabilia collectors will be more than happy with Rei-Gi’s other more reasonably priced models.

Quality / Durability Very Satisfied
Fit / Comfort Satisfied
Style / Design Satisfied
Price Dissatisfied
Overall Rating 4 Stars — Good to Very Good

Full Review

After the release of the 2011 BJJ Gi Survey results, I was contacted by London-based gi makers Rei-Gi and asked to review their exclusive Roger Gracie gi.

After discussing sizing, we figured out that an A3 would be the best fit, and they sent a blue gi my way. Shipping from the UK was reasonably fast (about two weeks) and customs didn’t snag it.

Unpacking the gi, what struck me first was how sturdy the construction is, with thick fabric and strong triple stitching. This gi was definitely built to last, and it has held up well through regular use.

The fit is a little loose on me, but that was expected (I always fall between A2 and A3 sizing). The length of the sleeves and pants were fine. The cut is a little big, similar to Howard gis or judogis, but it’s not overly baggy.

As you can see in the photos, what makes it the Roger Gracie gi (aside from his endorsement) is his name being on every patch and strip of stitching tape. How much this appeals to you will depends on how big of a Roger Gracie fan you are, and your aesthetic preferences. The patches themselves are strongly stitched, and the stitching tape hasn’t frayed (a common problem with many gis).

At £110, the Roger Gracie gi costs roughly $175 USD, putting it on the expensive end of the spectrum. Without any complaints about quality, durability, style or comfort, the high cost is my only sticking point. Those who do purchase the Roger Gracie edition will not be disappointed with its performance, but assuming Rei-Gi’s £70-80 ($111-127) gis are of equal quality (just without Roger Gracie patches), I’d be happier recommending those.  Rei-Gi makes heavy duty gis that will stand up to hard training, regardless of the name on the patches.

[Gi Review] The Fighter by Ronin

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Back while the 2011 BJJ Gi Survey was still in the works, Doug Lee from Kinji San sent me an A3 white Ronin Fighter gi to wear and review. Doug runs a martial arts store in NY, and Ronin is his family’s martial arts uniform brand. You can read our interview about the BJJ gear industry.

This will be my first hands-on gi review since finishing the survey, and I decided to use the same metrics to evaluate this gi as we used in the survey: sense of satisfaction (from very satisfied to very dissatisfied) with the price, quality/durability, fit/comfort and style/design as well as an overall score (1-5 stars.)

Price – Satisfied

If we really want to apply the same standards as a survey, realize that my satisfaction with price may be irrelevant because I didn’t pay for the gi. But I will still give an objective explanation for my opinion, and you can see if it rings true.

With a seemingly permanent sale price of $120, the Fighter hits a sweep spot well below the always rising average market price of about $150. It’s easily earns a spot alongside as other top gis in the $130 range like Fushida and Tatami. As Doug confessed in our interview, BJJ gi pricing is more about marketing than quality (for better or worse), and Ronin stands up well against gis that cost $30-50 more.

Quality/Durability: Very Satisfied

The most important factor for determining the value of a gi is how well a gi stands up to repeated beatings (especially when compared to its price.) This is where I put the most weight when evaluating a gi.

For being a relatively light weight gi, the Fighter’s fabrics and construction are heavy duty. All stitching is strong and neat, and nothing has frayed or come loose despite regular training and washing.

Doug seems to have a good handle on his factories and manufacturing, and I’d be surprised to see a bad batch come out of Ronin. You will get a lot of mileage out of these gis.

Fit/Comfort: Satisfied

This factor is very subjective (along with style and design) and varies with each person’s preferences and physique. Two people with the same body type can like a gi to fit in different ways. I’ll tell you how it fit for me.

Personally, it was a little loose, but being both very tall (6’2″) and skinny (165 lbs), I fall in the awkward A2-A3 borderland. Doug warned me about this and he was right. He said the A2 would be too short, and the A3 would be a little baggy (though not terribly like a judogi), but the sleeves and pant legs were the perfect length. This is a minor complaint though, since it doesn’t fit poorly, just looser than other brands I usually wear.

The fabrics of the gi itself are comfortable on the skin. The interior stitching tape didn’t both me as it has on others. The ripstop pants didn’t have a plastic/waxy feel. They use a flat canvas drawstring that stays tied, which I prefer.

The gi has not noticeably shrunk after several washings, though I machine washed cold and hung it to dry (like I do with all my gis) which isn’t the toughest test.

Style/Design: Somewhat Satisfied

The importance of this point varies from person to person. I’m a low-to-medium bling guy, and I don’t really care how my gis look in the end. Overall, I’m happy with the lines and cut of the Fighter, even if it’s a little baggy for me.

If I have to find complaints, the red and white “Ronin Brand” taping and red and black shoulder patches didn’t appeal to me. The logo on the back is odd too because it lists BJJ*JUDO*NHB*MMA*JIU-JITSU like an advertisement, but I can’t see it when I’m wearing it so that’s easily forgotten.

To be fair, compared to other gis that look like NASCAR jackets, the Fighter’s few patches are fairly tame. I do like Ronin’s crossed arrow fletchings logo, and I would like a model that featured that as embroidery (not patches).

(Note that the round logo on the chest in my photos is a tag I had yet to remove. It’s not a patch.)

Overall: 4 Stars – Good to Very Good

Scoring very highly in price and quality drives the Fighter by Ronin into Good to Very Good territory. Not counting my minor cosmetic preferences, I have zero real complaints. Doug’s history in the martial arts business and his connections to the right manufacturers have lead to a creation of a high quality BJJ gi. Ronin earns a spot among the top gis at any price, but especially in the under $130 range.

Final Word: The Fighter is a fantastic gi at a competitive price, and you won’t be disappointed picking one up.

You can find Ronin gis for sale on the Kinji San website or follow them on Facebook.

[Q&A] Fushida Sports

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Canadian gi company Fushida is in the spotlight after taking first place in the 2011 BJJ Gi Survey while not even breaking an average price of $130. Company founder Christo van Rooyen sat down to answer my questions about how they got into the martial arts uniform market, how they transitioned into making BJJ gis, and why judo and BJJ gis are often so different in price and style. Here’s the interview.

How’s it feel to be in first place?

Unbelievable, to be honest. We missed the opportunity to be part of your survey two years ago as we had just released our first Jiu-Jitsu kimonos.

This was our first time to be considered as part of the survey, and I was personally hoping for a top 20 finish to be totally honest. I mean, we are in a survey of 212 brands, and some that have been around for years and set standards back in the day.

It is a true honour, and one that we will most certainly continue to try to retain. A big thanks goes out to all our customers who has made this possible. Thank you for all their support!

What do you think of my statement that the top brands are all pretty even, but the price and customer service really separate them?

I have to trust your judgement on this one. You are the expert in your field and have researched the data extensively to know from the raw data what the results show.

Regardless, we are equally honoured to be #1, or even in the top 10 for that matter. This shows us that the direction we have taken and the steps we take each day are the right ones. Whether we are ranked #1 or #5, all in all we are super happy just being rated within the top 10.

But also keep in mind that every person will look at the results a different way. It is just human nature to have a different set of wants and needs, and that is what makes us all unique.

What R&D did you do to make a BJJ gi that was different than you judogis?

Going back to the days we started the company, we actually manufactured 100% custom judogis. These were 100% custom to a specific person. This is where my engineering background came in pretty useful to develop a formula to establish best cuts on per customers specific body dimensions. It was extremely time consuming, not to mention expensive, to produce single gis, each with their own pattern.

While we knew we had to change the business model eventually and turn to “off the shelf” gis, starting with custom gis really helped us in developing our patterns. We store all our customers’ measurements, and over time have expanded our database significantly. It is from our database that we develop patterns, and once we had our database set, it was an easy transition to change our formulas to develop a jiu-jitsu kimono.

Also, something that is key for us is that we will communicate with customers and ask some questions relating to what they like and dislike. Some of the guys that read this interview will know immediately who we are talking about. The CompGS was developed from communication with some of our customers. We also rely heavily on the Fushida team (Radhames Familia Jr. and Isaac Doederlein) who played a key role in the development of the CompGS and CompLS models. They were key in providing feedback on the new models and guiding us with their knowledge. A thank you goes out to them for their support.

Do you still make custom gis?

We have chosen to move away from custom. The cost was dramatically higher to have production of a single unit for a specific person. Everything from pattern design, to fabric cut, to stitching was done for just one single uniform. The timeframe to get production of a single uniform was also very difficult to obtain. We could not provide customers with any timeline. It was an order where the customer had to be VERY patient until we get the uniform completed. Shipping one single uniform from the factory was also not possible and thus we had to wait for batches before being able to manufacture.

In the end, we felt it best to step aside and use what we have learnt to transform into off-the-shelf products with an optimum fit as best as we can produce. That is what you see today in Fushida where we push the envelope with our sizes.

A little secret is that we have not once repeated a pattern. We keep changing and tweaking all the time. We already have some new sizes in mind for the future which we think will be super popular.

Have you traveled to Pakistan to see the factory your gis are manufactured in?

I knew this question would come up. The quick answer is no. The way we see it is that we want to align ourselves with the right people. That’s why we have met the owners and managers of the factories we work with.

Regardless of what the factory looks like, I would much rather align ourselves with the right mix of people, as in the end you’re dealings with your business partners, with people. Align with the right people and your longevity and future is more secure. We have been very lucky to have aligned ourselves with the right people and some great factories with high quality control. Think about it–your quality control and quality of products supplied is controlled by the managers at the factory. The managers set the standards, and so our approach is at the manager and owner level.

What difference do you see between the BJJ and judo uniform markets?

That’s a good question, actually. The pattern for a jiu-jitsu uniform is different than a judo uniform, but the final shape is very similar, and in fact, you can say they are the exact same, except for sizing off course.

Judo uniforms definitely lean more towards the traditional clean look with very limited embroidery and labels.

Jiu-jitsu uniforms on the other hand definitely have a much wider customer base. Customers preference ranges from the very minimal embroideries like judo uniforms to the exact opposite where it has as much embroidery and patches are possible. It definitely is a customer’s preference. With the jiu-jitsu market, there is so much more you can work with as far as design.

To be honest, it’s really fun to be able to not only offer the traditional judo uniforms, but also let the creative juices flow and design for the jiu-jitsu market. It really does keep it exciting and interesting.

One big difference between judo and jiu-jitsu uniforms is the uniform’s weight. With judo, the competition gis tend to be thick double weaves versus the very light weight uniforms preferred by jiu-jitsu competitors. That stems from the fact that with jiu-jitsu you have to weigh in with the gi on and with judo you don’t. Thus shaving every little ounce off the gi means less weigh the athlete needs to cut for competition.

Why do BJJ gis tend to be more expensive?

I think there are many reasons, and it also might even factor in demand and what each company sees as their costs associated with obtaining market share. There are a lot of brands sprouting up each week, and it seems to be getting tougher and more competitive to obtain market share.

If you look at our top end judo uniform (Icon), you will notice that the cost of that model against our top end CompGS Jiu-Jitsu model is close to the same. Surprisingly, production costs for these two models are in fact very close to one another, hence the retail costs being close as well. Both are top end models and retail for close to the same amount, but the big differences are in the fabrics and patterns.

CompGS (BJJ) is made of one single piece of fabric, while Icon (judo) is made of various pieces sewn together. Also note that the lower half of the judo uniform is a diamond pattern fabric that isn’t very costly. One piece construction means higher fabric wastage and therefore a higher cost. Keep in mind that we pay for fabric by the length, not by the pattern. Higher fabric waste equals higher cost to produce a single gi. That is one reason why you would see higher costs.

We add the anti-microbial EVA into the collar to keep bacteria out. That’s another cost addition.

Each step in the process adds costs to the final product.

[Q&A] Ronin Brand by Kinji San

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Doug Lee from Kinji San Martial Arts Supplies in Brooklyn, NY answered our questions about what it takes to get BJJ uniforms manufactured overseas. His family’s company has been in the martial arts gear industry since the 70′s, and they now offer their own Ronin brand BJJ uniforms. A hands-on review of Ronin’s “Fighter” model is coming soon.

How long have you been in the martial arts gear business?

The business has been here since 1976.  I was introduced part time in 1990 when I was about 11 years old. I would help the employees unload the boxes from the containers and help put them in order.  I became owner in 2001.

What were the working conditions like in the martial arts gear factories you’ve visited?

I went to Taiwan when I was 13-15 years old with my dad for karate gis and protective gear. Working conditions in that factory are good. I did not get skeeved out.

We have been dealing with a small factory in Japan that makes one model for our karate heavyweight. I never went there so I can’t say how conditions are.

Never went to visit the Chinese factories, but I know 2-3 very large, highly reputable ones.

My main Pakistani manufacturer happens to be the most impressive. They are a large company that has about 8-10 cleaning ladies on site at all times. It’s very clean. The employees seem to like working there. The factory itself is made of granite and limestone and looks like the Buckingham Palace in the UK.

I also have a secondary factory I deal with in Pakistan. The working conditions are okay, but it just doesn’t smell like Mr. Clean and Windex all over like my main one.

As for Brazil, I was there about 4-5 years ago on a bachelor’s party and accidentally ran into a BJJ gi factory while drinking all day.

What do you think of company owners who don’t travel to see the factories?

There’s nothing wrong with that. Most of the brands manufactured in China have reps. Ironically, even in today’s era, most of the Chinese factories don’t know English. They have reps that handle everything for them. These factory owners should learn English, but I guess they feel that one day Chinese will be the language to learn, so why bother learning anything else. I have a rep there as well. We manufacture our own Kinji San plastic shopping bags for our retail store. We didn’t have to go there. The rep made a percentage and handled it for us.

People don’t want to go to Pakistan because they are scared, and I don’t blame them. The Pakistan factories all speak English, so there’s no need for a rep. I think if many of these brands went to Pakistan to visit their factory unexpected, they would probably get disgusted and not want to make gis anymore.

I happen to be treated very differently when I go there to visit my factory. They take me to visit other large reputable factories to see their processes too. They also discourage me from visiting the smaller ones so I don’t get a bad opinion of Pakistan.

What is the quality control like in Pakistan?

If you have no experience, quality control is bad and stressful. I went through it before with karate gis 20 years ago. We were approached several times by a smaller factory that would not leave us alone. We gave them a chance with a small trial order for karate gis, and we got screwed. The shipment did not consist of karate uniforms. They were more like nursing uniforms. My main manufacturer in Pakistan found out who they were and took care of the international law suit, and we won. It was very nice of them to do this for us.

I have heard stories from other gi companies about quality control never being consistent. This is common with smaller factories due to the high worker turnover rate. Most of these small factories have employees that range in ages from 10 to 55. These factories are not stable and consistent.

Are there a lot of problems with corruption, as outsiders tend to assume?

I would guess yes, in certain situations. I don’t know the behind the scenes situation there with the government and customs officials.

Are there major differences between the factories (e.g., areas of specialism, experience, materials, etc.), and if so, how significant are they? Can you tell if a clean white gi is from Pakistan, Brazil or China just by looking at it, and if so, how?

No, I can’t tell what country a plain white gi comes from. For example, with the Ronin judo double weave, Adidas has the same model from the same factory, but of course with different sizing and specs. They chose a light almond white, whereas we choose a brighter ultra white with a slight tinge of blue. That looks more eye catching to me, but it’s the same cloth. We use this optic blue-white for our Ronin karate gis too.

The cloth comes in a unbleached badge color. They dye it white, blue, or black. Then they rewash it to get excess dye out before they sew on the patches.

Regarding cloth finishes, Japan has the best technique. This skill is sacred to them. They will not teach anyone the process, just like a Japanese sword maker (I’m a sword collector.) He will keep the secrets passed down from his ancestors. I have my Pakistan factory send the cloth to the Japanese factory to get finished and assembled. My Taiwan and Pakistan factories cannot replicate this finish on the karate gi. I deal with a handfull of high end Japanese brands that stand out in a league of their own: Mizuno Judo, Shureido, Hirota, Kasukura, Ronin, Tokaido, Mitosboshi and Toyo.

In Pakistan, there are no special materials for judo and jiu-jitsu weaves. If one factory has that weave or cloth, then ANYONE in Pakistan can get it! For example, gold and pearl weave are a dime a dozen there. If any brand advertises that they have a limited special produced weave, and the gis is made in Pakistan, then they should market themselves differently. They are always using the same materials—gold or pearl weave with different weights. It’s really a no brainer. As a tourist, you can go buy the fabric there and bring it back home.

Experience and specialism are the KEY. The better factories have techniques and higher end machinery. They also guarantee their product.

Why is the BJJ gi industry so heavily tied up with Pakistan?

Cheap prices is number one. The US dollar goes a long way in Pakistan.

Reason number two is that the smaller Pakistani factories are like leaches. They will email and call you 100 times in a month to beg for an order.

Number three is because the smaller factories will take small orders (under 3,000 gis). Everyday there are new brands being made in Pakistan. If you go there, you may get disgusted to see what goes on in some factories or even living rooms and backyards. All these BJJ brands are made in small factories. Larger factories are well established and committed to their clientele.

How have the political and military conflicts of the last few decades affected production?

This has not been an issue with me so far. I doubt it ever will because too much money and trade is at stake.

But getting back to the manufacturing, I like dealing with Pakistan better because they are more loyal to me. The Chinese factories, big or small, I sense will stab me in the back. I already had offers from Chinese manufacturers that make other brands to sell them to me behind their backs. They will bootleg and knockoff anything to make money.

A perfect example, Apple was already knocked off. The factory made a few thousand more iPads, iMacs and iPods, and opened up a shop in China without Apple USA knowing.

Same with Nike. The Air Max 95 sneakers are bootleged all over NYC. Yes, they are real! They were brought into the black market without Nike USA knowing. That’s typical Chinese manufacturing. Politicians can talk all they want, but I don’t think this is enough for the US to get the military involved.

Given their similarities, why do BJJ gis tend to cost so much more than judogis?

Marketing is key. It’s funny, I pay more for my Ronin heavyweight karate and the Ronin double weave judo gis than my BJJ uniforms. However, I sell the BJJ ones for a lot more. The double weave just look and feel much more durable with craftsmanship. It’s just the cut that is different. IJF rules require the jacket cover the butt. Single weave judo gis are less but not based on the weaves. It’s a rice grain weave. There are a handful of BJJ brands using this weave. It’s very inexpensive and easy to get. The pearl and gold weaves are about 15-20% more to make. For double weave judo, there are about 4-8 different weave patterns and they get costly.

What kind of R&D went into making your BJJ gi? Have you changed anything based on customer feedback?

We would give samples out to a few wholesale customers that were serious in BJJ.  Back before 2008, customers were not so involved in the quality and fit of the gis.  They were just happy to have a decent BJJ gi to wear. There were not too many brands to compare against.  What I’m trying to say is that new gi companies now have it a lot easier to make a good gi on their first try. The reason why is because most of the factories in Pakistan have experience now, and there are about 8-20 brands that are considered good.

What do you think of the trend of taking preorders before the gis are manufactured?

From the gi companies’ point of view it’s simple. They know factories want a deposit upfront before they start working.  Let’s first do a pre-order to know how much to make and use the customers’ money to fund the job.  There’s really no big expense out of pocket and it’s a good idea.

From the customers point of view, some may not like it, and so they don’t have to order it.

However, when that product arrives, the gi company has to deliver a high-end item with good customer service.  If not, then they can wind up like the Sidekick Limited edition cell phone, where they produced limited amounts with payment upfront.  T-mobile lost tens of thousands of customers.

What’s your opinion on Shoyoroll’s new membership program?

I hope it works out for them since I’m sure many have joined.  I don’t like to see customers get cheated or screwed in any way.  They probably raised a lot of money, which is great on their end, but it’s the factory you have to work well with.  They have to be ready to ship out orders on time.  Then there’s customs in Pakistan and the US.  Both sides can take up to 4-7 days each side.

My honest opinion is that if Shoyoroll cannot guarantee 7+ of the models they promised to produce then they should honor to the loyal members and offer pro-rated refunds.

A Better Way to Compare BJJ Gis

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Want an awesome way to look at the 2011 BJJ Survey Results? Check this out:

Overall Rating vs Average Price

The Top 20 list (or Top 33 as it were) doesn’t really give you a meaningful way to compare brands, partly because most brands are pretty good, and partly because of the margin for error. (You can read all about that here.)

With this graph, you can roughly break the BJJ gi market down into four big groups:

Across the top you have those with good reputations, and across the bottom, the bad. The left side is cheaper, the right is more expensive. And “average” brands and prices are across the middle. (The overall average price for a gi is $144.27.)

Yes, I know what you’re thinking.

“How can My Favorite Gi™ be rated so badly?”

“Crappy Brand X is higher than awesome Brand Y? Preposterous!”

“Can Small Brand A really be better than Big Brand B?”

Whoa whoa, slow down. I’m sorry if this graph doesn’t jive with your opinions. You may find these rankings controversial or even disrespectful. But remember that these aren’t my opinions—they’re what the survey data showed. You can argue with the 1,800 or so reviewers.

Still, why did some brands with usually good reputations end up lower? We may have logical explanations.

Don’t forget there’s a margin for error. Think of these as fuzzy points. An average brand has the potential to be good (and bad.) Factors outside our control can affect ranking too (which we talked about here.)

Remember that we are lumping together all reviews for a brand. It’s possible they had a divide between good and bad reviews that shifted their rating out of where you’d expect it.

For example, when we look deeper into individual brands, we may find situations like this:

Here we see a brand with two models of BJJ gis at different prices. One is great, the other not so much. This would earn them an “average to good” overall ranking, though some people are having fantastic experiences while other are having bad ones.

We can imagine another company with quality control problems between batches, resulting in a split between happy and unhappy customers.

Like Leonardo DiCaprio in Inception, we won’t know until we go one layer deeper.

To find out, stay tuned over the next few weeks as we profile each company in survey (and a few that didn’t make it in.)

Where is X-Guard?

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Fans of X-Guard (the fight gear company, not the guard) have been clamoring to know why it’s missing from the results. I owe it to them and everyone else to tell the story of how X-Guard (unfortunately) got dropped.

When the survey had just been closed and we took our first look at the rankings, here’s what we found:

Wow, X-Guard at #1! They weren’t even on my radar, so I was excited to see an unexpected company at the top. They’re just the kind of underdog I wrote about before:

We’d like to see these underdogs get the attention they deserve (as well as the fly by night companies), but as the survey’s administrator, I’m in a peculiar spot when it comes to spotlighting certain brands. Basically, I can’t.

In promoting this survey, I have to be careful not to skew the results or ruin its impartiality. For example, I try not to mention any particular brands, and I haven’t asked any companies to promote it to their customers, fearing a flood of overly positive reviews (though we can account for this bias on our end in the analysis.)

That said, I do want to see more reviews for certain smaller brands so we can see how they rank against the big dogs. In fact, I have a whole list of them, but I’m not sure I should share it.

So what can I do? The strategy is simply to push the overall number of responses up and hope that with enough people giving reviews, the little companies will get the reviews they need.

If X-Guard’s rank was legit, I’d be very excited. But at the same time, I needed to figure out how this happened. Since there isn’t a significant difference in ranking between the other top brands, how did X-Guard pull so far ahead? If I couldn’t explain this, no one was going to take the results seriously.

Travel back in time to the 2010 survey. Break Point took first place (with a very wide margin of error.) Like most, my response to this was “Who the hell is Break Point?” They edged out Shoyoroll for the top spot, and this was before Shoyoroll was having problems hitting their pre-order release dates.

People didn’t trust those rankings, and I don’t blame them. My suspicion was that Break Point got a bunch of fans to submit positive reviews. I didn’t run that survey so I can’t be sure. (We could rerun the 2010 data, but I think the new results make this unnecessary.)

While designing the 2011 survey, I was determined to be able detect these things, as well as snoop out potential fraud. If an odd brand made it to the top again, I wanted to be able to justify it.

One of the simplest things to monitor are referring URLs to see how people are getting to the survey. From this, I found that many companies had linked to the survey from Facebook, which had been expected (and has been found to not significantly affect rankings.)

X-Guard was one of these companies, but they went a step further. They were running a contest to raffle off a sold out gi to fans who took the survey and voted for them. And boy, did it work.

By their nature, online polls and surveys can be overly influenced by a company with a strong internet presence. We tried to account for this bias, but we were unprepared to deal with the high concentration of extremely positive reviews driven in by X-Guard’s “gi giveaway” contest.

How do I handle this? X-Guard didn’t do anything against the rules, since there weren’t any. Frankly, I hadn’t planned on this. I didn’t feel X-Guard meant any harm (and after talking with them, I’m sure they didn’t.) And I don’t think their fans were being dishonest in their reviews. X-Guard just wanted to send their fans over and offer a cool prize for showing support.

This was a sticky situation, because I didn’t want to punish X-Guard for something they didn’t know they shouldn’t do. After discussing the issue at length with my stats guy and a dozen other BJJ gear bloggers, we arrived at a decision to remove X-Guard from the official rankings, but to explain what happened and publish the unedited results with them at the top (which is what you’re reading now.)

The survey was designed more as a census than a popularity contest. But the truth is we can only collect data on gis that people want to talk about. In a magical Christmas land, rather than doing an open survey, we’d have a panel of 1000 expert reviewers with no affiliations to the gi companies. Or better yet, we’d get 1000 randomly selected jiu-jiteiros to rate all their gis, not just the one they choose!

We don’t want to set a bad precedence for future surveys where companies could bribe their way to the top.  The next survey will carry rules like “Companies can link to the survey, but can’t offer any incentives to get good reviews” (unless we find a way to get the randomly selected reviewers plan to work.)

(While we’re talking about dropping brands, you should know that another company was removed after we found that half of their reviews came from an IP address associated with the company. These reviews all rated their brand unusually high and other brands unusually low.)

I was very sad about having to remove X-Guard from the rankings. They are just the kind of small company I want to get exposure from the survey. Their owner, Elmer Santelices, was surprisingly understanding when I told him how I had to drop him, and he even apologized to me about running the contest. (He also did an interview with me.)

After taking the survey, a reviewer wrote me to ask why I didn’t ask about quality of customer service. He said he’d stopped buying gis he liked because he hated dealing with the company.

This had been considered when designing the survey, but ultimately scrapped. It only worked if you could only buy gis directly from the company and not through many other sources like online retailers, brick-and-mortar martial arts stores, school pro shops, Craigslist, eBay, person-to-person barter and so on. Maybe we’ll try to tackle that in the future.

Nevertheless, he brought up a very good point. With the quality of gis converging, the product can take a backseat to other factors that affect buyers’ decisions. These include:

  • Marketing, advertising and branding
  • Fantastic customer service
  • Quick and courteous communication
  • Community engagement
  • Word-of-mouth reputation
  • A motivated fan base

One of the advantages a small company has is the ability to more easily interact with their customer base. As a company grows, this becomes more difficult, especially as they start being sold through distributors and lose the direct connection to their customers. At the same time, more sales means more potential for problems or quality control issues.

This could explain why so many small companies made it into the Top 33 ahead of the big names like Atama, Koral and Gameness. The quality of the small guys probably isn’t so much better, but if they stay on top of their game, they can keep a higher percentage of their customers satisfied and fanatical.

X-Guard’s ability to leverage this fact definitely shows what’s possible when your customers are behind you.

Don’t miss our interview with Elmer Santelices, the owner of X-Guard Fight Wear!

[Q&A] X-Guard Fight Wear

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After unfortunately being dropped from the gi survey rankings, Elmer Santelices of X-Guard Fight Wear was still nice enough to do an interview about how his company got off the ground and their efforts to get a BJJ kimono made in the Philippines. You can check out their products at xguardbrand.com.

Q: Tell me who you are and where you train.

A: I’m Elmer Santelices. I started training in jiu-jitsu with Tinguinha in 2002 and got my purple through him. Then I started with GB Chino where I got my brown last year.

Q: When was your company founded? Where are you located?

A: We are located in So Cal. Our branch that handles all our international customers is in Quezon City, Philippines.

We started first making shirts back in summer of 2010 and caught on well with friends and grapplers in the Philippines. Our first gi debuted in November, 2010. It was only given to our athletes, like Charuto, Vinny Magalhaes, Rodrigo Teixeira, Romie Aram, Betiss Monsourri and Tex Johnson and many others. Our last series were limited to only 500 kimonos and they sold out in only a couple weeks.

We will have a full line of IBJJF approved apparel, including all color gis, rashguards, shorts, and belts, by this January! We’re the only jiu-jitsu brand that is offering IBJJF custom rashguards to all our customers.

Q: How many employees do you have?

A: We have 20 employees to run the day to day ops. This includes our web designers, graphic artists, advertisers, networking personnels, videographer, photographer. This does not include laborers in the factories.

Q: What kind of R&D did you do?

I have been grappling for a long time. My brother, cousins and other staff members also have trained for many years. We wanted to make gis that are strong, light, durable and stylish.

We went out to gather many samples of fabrics. So far we have agreed on a 550 GSM (grams per square meter) pearl weave top with 10 oz. trousers. We were not content with the popular rip-stop so we opted to stay away from it.

We are currently experimenting with a “crystal weave” jacket and may come out with a prototype really soon.

Q: Where are your gis manufactured?

A: Our gis are currently manufactured in Pakistan, although we are in the process of transitioning to a factory in the Philippines.

Q: Why are you trying to move production to the Philippines?

A: Because we are Filipinos, we travel to the Philippines many times a year. With a factory based in the Philippines, we would have complete control with quality assurance of all products.

Q: Have you been to the factories in Pakistan? People often worry about the working conditions (sweat shops, child labor, etc.)

Honestly, because of the current political situations, neither I nor any of my staff have been to Pakistan to check the facilities. That is why we want to eventually transfer to the Philippines, where we can have full and legal control.

Q: What have you done to make your product unique? The public often assumes companies are just working with the same 3-4 Pakistani manufacturers, and that they just copy each other (like making Shoyoroll clones with different logos and colors.)

A: We introduced a connected 8-point loop trousers that’s stronger than the traditional 4 on most gi pants. We are also working on our new “tunnel” loop system which will be on our XG5 prototype.

Q: Have you made any changes to your line based on customer feedback?

A: Based on customer feedback, we have added sizes A2T (tall) and A2S (stocky) and we’ve eliminated inner woven linings for better comfort.

We will never do any silly pre-orders. We will never take customers’ money before any kimonos are in our possession. Customers should invest their money their way instead of waiting 4-5 months for a gi like many other gi brands.

Q: Do you offer a warranty or guarantee on your gis?

A: We offer a 30 day no-worry money-back guarantee on our kimonos and fightwear.